Board index » dentistry » Interesting NICO information!

Interesting NICO information!

2005-03-16 07:41:00 PM
RE: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net
Thanks for the information!
Joel
Sarah's Email <bank/blank@blank.net>wrote:
You know Joel, you might study up on the recent osteo necrotic jaw
data. Also, have you read this?
March 15, 2005
Drug linked to death of jawbone
By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
Salvatore Ruggiero was puzzled.
Over a three-year period, the jaws of dozens of patients who had
undergone oral surgery at his hospital had failed to heal properly.
Part of the jawbone had died and become exposed.><snip>
-----Original Message-----
From: Mr Joel Eichen [mailto:joeleichen@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:39 PM
To: Sarah's Email
Subject: Re: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net
If you mean NICO, there is absolutely no record of that disease on Pub
Med, the Natrional Library of Medicine! Do we accept the word of
established researchers, or do we accept the word of alternative,
quack, money-grubbing practitioners?
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Sarah's Email wrote:
Dear Doctor,
Your posts about Osteo necrotic jaws, are very disturbing to a patient
who has suffered chronic OM in my mandible for 17months now! Here “we?
are, sick as dogs, and you dentists make jokes and act like children.
I am a 58yr old grandmother, and am a medical care giver, as a
Physical Therapist, and I’ve never read such disrespectful attitudes
toward a group of people who are ill, and hurting!
My husband also has Prostate Cancer, and on our support forum alone,
we have had three men who have contracted ONJ due to taking
bisphosphonates, and having dental procedures during their treatments.
Treatmentes aimed at keeping them from getting osteoporosis while on
Hormone therapy. World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist,
Dr. “Snuffy?Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking
Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any
dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments! WE are not amused with
the lack of help, knowledge, and zero research being done by the ADA
to help patients with ONJ/ Osteo Necrotic Jaws!!
Sadly,
Sarah
deleted
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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-
 

Re:Interesting NICO information!

Quote
World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist,
Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking
Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any
dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments!
Is the above quote real?
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:35:23 GMT, "Dr Steve" <nospam@home.net>wrote:
Quote

>World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist,
>Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking
>Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any
>dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments!

Is the above quote real?
I guess...... she sent this to me by e-mail ......
Another post called attention to, "Phossy Jaw" which apparently is a
real phenomenon.
Joel
Quote

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med dentistry
Dentally related topics; all about teeth

Re:Interesting NICO information!

Quote
>>World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist,
>>Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking
>>Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any
>>dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments!
>
>Is the above quote real?

I guess...... she sent this to me by e-mail ......
I thought it sounded made up. Dr. "Snuffy" the proctologist giving dental
advice.
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
comes back as dead bone.
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

LeFort3 wrote:
Quote
I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
comes back as dead bone.

When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.
Steve
--
Cut the nonsense to reply
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

Quote
When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.

Steve
There was a story on Yahoo about it the other day.
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:25:05 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinnonsense@earthlink.net>wrote:
Quote


LeFort3 wrote:
>I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
>induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
>osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
>sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
>removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
>tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
>specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
>comes back as dead bone.
>

When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.

Steve
There is a down side to increased density; decreased blood supply. I
have been hearing more about this but if this is due to fosamax, this
will be the first time I have seen it. Other than her being a
well-controlled diabetic, there really isn't much else explaining it.
She has been on fosamax for a good long while.
Dave
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

In article <1111019097.345257.28790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"LeFort3" <lefort3@verizon.net>wrote:
Quote
I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
comes back as dead bone.
I'm extremely concerned about this *personally* as well as in general,
of course.
Webby
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

In article <4238F891.8000607@earthlink.net>,
Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinnonsense@earthlink.net>wrote:
Quote
LeFort3 wrote:
>I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
>induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
>osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
>sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
>removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
>tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
>specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
>comes back as dead bone.
>

When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.

Steve
This is what I have been thinking. When???? I took a little time off
from the usenet world, and what happened? I missed reading about this
as it unfolded in smd. I paid the usual attention to my daily newspaper
at home and never saw a word about it. Surely, I could have missed it.
But if you can imagine my concern for a moment: In 2000, I had to have
a history and physical to be cleared for surgery on my jaw. My
maxillofacial surgeon wasn't sure about extractions until "they" got in
there ... and the dentist wasn't clear about what she could do until
"they" got in there. In the meantime, the IM doctor discovered
osteoporosis and wanted to put me immediately (pre-op) on Fosamax and
HRT. That would have involved only a couple of weeks time pre-op, and
then as soon as I could "consume" anything by mouth post-op, I would
have been on the regime. I said no to the drugs initially, preferring
to give it more thought. Post-op, I refused HRT and after about two
months, maybe three, I agreed with a second opinion from another of my
doctors to take the Fosamax for a period of time to see how I felt about
it all. I decided after about a month of the drug that I was too
worried about "the unknown". The pamphlet said that there were seven
years' experience with the drug. I thought that I was too young to
worry about the affects of a drug I would need to take for the rest of
my life (until they found a better one, of course). Anyway, over the
past four and a half years, I've wondered about my decision. Last
September, my doctor encouraged me to take HRT as a measure to prevent
progression of the disease. I was not at all happy about my decision
but I have been on the treatment for about six months now... and ready
to bail out.
.... Webby ... (I'm running low on mental energy this evening)
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

In article <955j31hosa48vtjd2asaksu6nb51p5ob8r@4ax.com>,
Dave King <lefort3@verizn.net>wrote:
Quote
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:25:05 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinnonsense@earthlink.net>wrote:

>
>
>LeFort3 wrote:
>>I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
>>induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
>>osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
>>sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
>>removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
>>tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
>>specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
>>comes back as dead bone.
>>
>
>When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
>drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.
>
>Steve

There is a down side to increased density; decreased blood supply. I
have been hearing more about this but if this is due to fosamax, this
will be the first time I have seen it. Other than her being a
well-controlled diabetic, there really isn't much else explaining it.
She has been on fosamax for a good long while.

Dave
Fosamax was approved Sept. 29, 1995. When it was prescribed for me in
2000, the enclosed pamphlet referred to, per my recollection, seven
years experience. I didn't that that was long enough... I didn't want
to put that powerful drug into my body!!! I think this is extremely
concerning.
Webby
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:25:05 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinnonsense@earthlink.net>wrote:
Quote


LeFort3 wrote:
>I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate
>induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for
>osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel
>sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was
>removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation
>tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some
>specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it
>comes back as dead bone.
>

When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.

Steve
I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself;
Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases
of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for
publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of
the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.
Dave
-

Re:Interesting NICO information!

Dave King wrote:
Quote

I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself;
Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases
of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for
publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of
the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.

Dave
Tease.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
-

Re:Interesting NICO information!

"Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com>wrote in message
Quote
RE: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net


Thanks for the information!

Joel

Sarah's Email <bank/blank@blank.net>wrote:

You know Joel, you might study up on the recent osteo necrotic jaw
data. Also, have you read this.

March 15, 2005


Drug linked to death of jawbone

By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY

Salvatore Ruggiero was puzzled.

Over a three-year period, the jaws of dozens of patients who had
undergone oral surgery at his hospital had failed to heal properly.
Part of the jawbone had died and become exposed.><snip>
Source: North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System
Date: 2004-12-30
URL: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220005619.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doctors Link Common Chemotherapy Drug To Jawbone Necrosis
NEW HYDE PARK, NY -- Doctors at Long Island Jewish (LIJ) Medical Center
recently discovered a link between a common chemotherapy drug and a serious
bone disease called osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ). The discovery, published
in the Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons, prompted both the US Food
and Drug Administration (FDA) and Novartis, the manufacturer of
bisphosphonates used in cancer chemotherapy, to issue warnings earlier this
fall to physicians and dentists about the risk for this potential adverse
effect. ONJ is a condition in which the bone tissue in the jaw fails to heal
after minor trauma such as a tooth extraction, causing the bone to be
exposed. The exposure can eventually lead to infection and fracture and may
require long-term antibiotic therapy or surgery to remove the dying bone
tissue.
The chief of the Division of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery at LIJ,
Salvatore Ruggiero, DMD, MD, and his staff reported that they were struck by
a cluster of cancer patients with necrotic lesions in the jaw -- a condition
they rarely saw, in only about one to two patients a year. When they
launched a study of patients' charts, they found that 63 patients diagnosed
with this condition over a three-year period shared only one common clinical
feature: they had all received long-term bisphosphonate therapy.
Bisphosphonates are commonly used in tablet form to prevent and treat
osteoporosis in post-menopausal women. Stronger forms are widely used in the
management of advanced cancers that have metastasized to the bone, where the
disease often causes bone pain and possibly even fractures. Several cancers
can involve or metastasize to the bone, including lung, breast, prostate,
multiple myeloma and others. In cancer chemotherapy, the drugs are given
intravenously, and usually for long periods of time.
In their study, Dr. Ruggiero and his staff teamed up with Bhoomi Mehrotra,
MD, in the Division of Hematology-Oncology at LIJ, and doctors in the
Oral-Maxillofacial Surgery Division at the University of Maryland Medical
Center. Of the 63 patients diagnosed with ONJ between February 2001 and
November 2003 at their centers, 56 were cancer patients who had received
infusions of bisphosphonates for at least a year and seven were non-cancer
patients who had been receiving long-term oral therapy for osteoporosis. The
patients developed ONJ after normal bone trauma, such as a tooth extraction,
while receiving bisphosphonate therapy. Rather than healing, the bone began
to die, and the majority of patients required surgery to remove the diseased
bone.
In the FDA MedWatch and Novartis alerts issued in late September,
oncologists and dentists were advised of the addition of osteonecrosis of
the jaw to the "Precautions" and "Adverse Reactions" sections on the
labeling of injectable bisphosphonates, describing the spontaneous reports
of the condition being found mostly in cancer patients. The alerts also
recommend a dental examination with appropriate preventive dentistry in
patients with risk factors such as cancer, chemotherapy, corticosteroids and
poor oral hygiene prior to initiating treatment with bisphosphonates.
"Monitoring the dental health of patients on bisphosphonates is key because
an early diagnosis may reduce the complications resulting from advanced
destruction of the jaw bone," said Dr. Ruggiero. "Since our paper was
published and dentists became aware of the connection, many more patients
with the condition have been identified, even in our own center. Prevention
and early detection are so important to preserving the jaw bone in these
individuals." Individuals should attempt to avoid tooth extractions and
other major dental work while on the drugs.
Bisphosphonates block the work of bone cells called osteoclasts, one of two
important types of bone cells that are involved in the continuous process of
bone remodeling in a delicate balancing act. During this process,
osteoblasts -- "the good guys"-- put calcium in the matrix of the bone and
make bone stronger, and osteoclasts -- "the bad guys" -- take calcium away,
diminishing the internal strength of the bone. Bone remodeling is like a
necessary game of tug-of-war between the goods guys and the bad. Bone mass
and mineral content constantly adjust throughout the life cycle to support
the places on the skeleton where the most outside force occurs.
Novartis's Aredia?(pamidronate disodium) and Zometa?(zoledronic acid)
injections are the two intravenous bisphophosphonates used in chemotherapy
regimens. Novartis changed their labeling in August. Merck's Fosamax?
(alendronate) and Procter and Gamble Pharmaceuticals's Actonel?(risedronate
sodium) are the most commonly used oral bisphosphonates, which are only
indicated for osteoporosis. Labeling for the oral forms has not been
changed. "The oral form is much less potent than the intravenous form and
appears to be substantially less likely to cause the problem," said Dr.
Ruggiero.
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:06:49 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com>wrote:
Quote
Dave King wrote:

>
>I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself;
>Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases
>of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for
>publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of
>the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.
>
>Dave

Tease.

Steve
Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling
osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less
incidence with the PO, according to his study.
I hope you feel alittle better now ;)
Dave
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Re:Interesting NICO information!

Dave King wrote:
Quote
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:06:49 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com>wrote:


>Dave King wrote:
>
>
>>I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself;
>>Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases
>>of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for
>>publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of
>>the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.
>>
>>Dave
>
>Tease.
>
>Steve


Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling
osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less
incidence with the PO, according to his study.

I hope you feel alittle better now ;)

Dave
Yeah. Got anything for gas?
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
-

Re:Interesting NICO information!

-->
Quote
Yeah. Got anything for gas?

Steve

An SUV ??
-

Re:Interesting NICO information!

In article <l47j41pc3f9kfm9sltlc7sjeps7ol4plvs@4ax.com>,
Dave King <lefort3@verizn.net>wrote:
Quote
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:06:49 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com>wrote:

>Dave King wrote:
>
>>
>>I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself;
>>Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases
>>of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for
>>publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of
>>the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.
>>
>>Dave
>
>Tease.
>
>Steve

Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling
osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less
incidence with the PO, according to his study.

I hope you feel alittle better now ;)

Dave
I feel much better **knowing** that I know better than to take
alendronate/Fosamax for the treatment of osteoporosis. The ****last***
thing I would need would be ONJ. -- I'll take my WHO classification of
Osteoporosis with high risk of fracture any day ... but I will not take
any additional risks of more jaw bone destruction than I currently have.
Webby
-

Re:Interesting NICO information!

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:13:35 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com>wrote:
Quote
>Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling
>osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less
>incidence with the PO, according to his study.
>
>I hope you feel alittle better now ;)
>
>Dave

Yeah. Got anything for gas?

Steve

Yeah, about $2.25/gal.
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
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